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Christian Woman Leadership Podcast

Oct 13, 2020

The difference between who we say we are and how we actually live impacts not just us personally, but also everyone we lead. But how can we learn to identify this gap and begin shrinking it? 


In this episode, Holly and I talk with our guest Terra Mattson, about this issue, which she calls an integrity gap. We dive into what this means, common symptoms of an integrity gap, and how to start closing this gap. In addition, Terra sheds light on why unresolved trauma is common in leaders and what leaders need to do about it.

We also discuss with Terra whether we should address integrity gaps when we see them in other people. Finally, we explore why speaking up is so important, even when it’s risky and what it means to become a wholehearted leader.


This is an important conversation for every leader, whether you are just getting started or whether you’ve been in leadership for years. As Terra reminds us in the conversation, this is an ongoing process and none of us are immune to integrity gaps.

For the full show notes for this episode, go to

Key Points Discussed:

  • Terra’s life and leadership [4:38]
  • Terra’s leadership journey [6:40]
  • Why integrity matters for leaders [10:00]
  • Integrity gaps [15:10]
  • Most common symptoms of integrity gaps [21:00]
  • Unresolved trauma [28:00]
  • How to begin shrinking an integrity gap [32:00]
  • Why is it hard for leaders to be honest about their struggles [35:00]
  • Identifying safe relationships and red flags for unhealthy counseling situations [39:00]
  • Being a safe person for others and when to refer out [45:00]
  • When you see an integrity gap in someone else [47:12]
  • Speaking up when it’s risky [53:58]
  • Becoming wholehearted leaders [1:01:41]
  • Leaders are learners [1:04:14]

Resources & Links:

Connect with Terra Mattson

Connect with Esther and Holly:


This episode was originally published on on Oct. 13, 2020.